Signal Light at McCulloch and Worchester

From: <>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 3:35 PM
To: ‘Wetzel, Charles’ <>
Cc: ‘Fitzgerald, Robert’ <>; ‘Dallari, Bob’ <>; ‘Zembower, Jay’ <>; ‘Bevis, Mark’ <>
Subject: RE: Loop Detection on Signal Light at McCulloch and Worchester Road

Mr. Wetzel,

Thank you for the detailed explanation and taking the time to do the analysis and determine the best way to handle the traffic.  I will pass this along to our residents.  It is not what we would like to hear but it is understandable considering the amount of traffic on McCulloch every day.  Which is the source of the issue and why this signal light was installed.

If you are interested in the history, here is the story and some video showing the chaos at the intersection before the light as well as one showing the order the light brought.  Traffic is well over capacity on McCulloch and our residents in University Estates just could not get out as you can plainly see in the videos.  Dangerous with accidents and people taking every chance they could to exit.  We tried three times to get a light and each time the counts exiting Worchester onto McCulloch were too low to warrant a light so we were finally able to have OC count both entrances and the counts were finally acceptable.  Mayor Jacobs championed the light for us and it was installed and the residents are grateful.

We are sorry that some drivers feel inconvenienced by this light but view the videos and see if it is warranted.  It was total chaos before the light.  We are so grateful that Mayor Jacobs did what she did and had this installed.

We need the traffic in this area solved and the only way that can happen is with the Richard Crotty that will cut traffic down to an acceptable level on McCulloch.  Please consider this as you make decisions.


BCC approving the signal light

Order out of chaos:

Again, thank you for hearing us and responding.  Our residents will at least know why the light is timed as it is.  Have a great day.

RJ Mueller



From: Wetzel, Charles <>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 2:26 PM
Cc: Fitzgerald, Robert <>; Dallari, Bob <>; Zembower, Jay <>; Bevis, Mark <>
Subject: FW: Loop Detection on Signal Light at McCulloch and Worchester Road

Mr. Mueller,

There is no problem with the detectors.  The signal is now coordinated with the signals at Lockwood and Tanner and the delays to Worchester are greater than when the signal was operating on its own (free).  My timings coordinator Robert Fitzgerald gives more detail on the operation of the signal below.  As can be seen below, the cycle length when coordinated varies from 160 to 190 seconds.  Thus drivers coming off Worchester can wait up to about 3 minutes during the peak periods of the day.  Signal timing is done for the “greater good”; meaning most of the green time goes to movements with most of the traffic.  As can be seen from Robert’s morning peak example (7am to 9am), there were 2045 vehicles observed heading westbound on McCulloch versus only 94 vehicles making the northbound left off Worchester.  As Robert mentioned, we tried to limit the time the signals are coordinated to reduce delay to the side streets, but for now we feel coordination is necessary 7am to 9am and 2:30pm to6:30pm during the week.  We will investigate whether reducing these times on Friday are possible.  Complaints from side street motorists and driver frustration are typical when signals are initially coordinated, but again we need to time for the majority of the traffic to reduce overall delay; not just delay to the side streets.  We hope motorists can understand this rationale and eventually get used to this periodic delay to reduce overall congestion.

Thank you and please contact Robert or myself with any questions.


 Charles R. Wetzel, P.E., PTOE

County Traffic Engineer

Seminole County Public Works / Traffic Engineering

140 Bush Loop

Sanford, FL   32773

Office (407) 665-5686

Fax (407) 665-5623


From: Fitzgerald, Robert
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 10:28 AM
To: Wetzel, Charles <>
Cc: Clancy, Hollie <>; Bevis, Mark <>
Subject: RE: Loop Detection on Signal Light at McCulloch and Worchester Road


In October of 2018 the signal was installed and turned on by Orange County.  At this point we began to receive calls from the McCulloch drivers that they were frustrated by having to stop on occasions at 3 signals (Tanner, Worchester and Lockwood) while traveling on McCulloch.  I drove out to the location on several instances and observed traffic backing up from McCulloch to Tanner and Tanner to Lake Price.  I made adjustments to the McCulloch at Tanner signal and this change proceeded to stack cars up between Lockwood and Worchester on McCulloch.  After working with the three signals over a few months, I decided to have Albeck-Gerken (our timing consultant) collect TMC’s and determine the best way to handle the area by doing a timing study.

September of this year we implemented coordination timings for the area.  After watching it for 7 consecutive days, we determined that coordination all day was not beneficial.  Therefore, we tailored running coordination for the peak time frames only and allowed the rest of the day to run free as it did in the past.  The cycle lengths were determined by Synchro software based on volumes. The coordinated times are as follows:

Monday – Friday

7:00 AM – 9:15 AM  coordination runs a 180 sec cycle

9:15 AM – 14:30 PM Free operation as before

14:30 PM – 16:00 PM coordination runs a 160 sec cycle

16:00 PM – 18:30 PM coordination runs a 190 sec cycle

18:30 PM – 7:00 AM Free operation as before

Weekends run Free operation as before.

Example from the Turning Movement Counts (TMC’s);

7:00 AM – 9:00 AM  (McCulloch EB total= 393) ( McCulloch WB total= 2045) (Worchester NBLT total = 94) (Keats Way SBLT total = 7)

The calls for this complaint began to flare up last week and we have talked to a few residents.  We have been to the location to check on a few occasions since and we have determined the detection is working properly.  While checking the detection, we looked to see if we could tailor back the coordination times by starting coordination later or dropping it off sooner.  However, given the consistent amount of vehicles traveling the area, we do not see an opportunity that would benefit the greater good with exception of Friday.  We are looking into tapering back on coordination for that day only at this time.  All other time frames are working out well.  At the expected growth rate of 7% per year, I believe that eventually coordination will be needed even more as time goes on.

I believe there is a history regarding the installation of the signal that Mark would know more about but I do know that it has been very tough to satisfy everyone regarding the installation of the signal as well as the timings. Unfortunately, I have to make the decision based on counts and efficiency.

Let me know if you need anything else,

Robert Fitzgerald

ATMS Timings Coordinator

Seminole County

P.W./Traffic Engineering

140 Bush Loop

Sanford, FL 32773


Fax 407-665-5623

From: []
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2019 9:26 AM
To: Wetzel, Charles <>
Cc: Dallari, Bob <>; Zembower, Jay <>
Subject: Loop Detection on Signal Light at McCulloch and Worchester Road

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Mr. Wetzel,

About a month ago, something changed with the signal light timing at McCulloch and Worchester Drive.  Coming out of University Estates on Worchester, the loop detectors would trip and allow us out in a reasonable time.  Now we have to wait minutes to get out because it appears the loop detectors have been turned off.

This has been a point of discussion on NextDoor and people living in University Estates are upset.  The light is so long that I have witnessed drivers thinking the light is not working and drive through it to get out when there is a break in traffic.

Yesterday I was on my way to work and saw a Seminole Country truck parked on the grass and went over and talked to the person.  She said when the change occurred the light was synchronized with the other lights on McCulloch as these are under the control of Seminole County.  That is understandable but it seems the loop detectors were turned off at the same time?  Can’t the loop detectors work and the signal lights revert to a synchronized state after being tripped?

Before this happened traffic flowed fine and traffic exiting Worchester worked beautifully.  Can something be done to get us back to where we were before the change occurred and still keep the lights synchronized.

Any help would be appreciated.

RJ Mueller


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Posted in McCulloch Road.